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Thread: Proposed 1/8 GT Class Rules

  1. #1

    Proposed 1/8 GT Class Rules

    There has been some discussion about rules for the 1/8 GT Class. The following are the rules that were used for the 2011 Ipanema Sports GT World Championships, as shown on this page: http://www.infernogt.net/world/rules.php

    There has been some discussion here about rules for this class. Maybe we could discuss the following as a starting point, and after they're changed if/as needed, they could be submitted to ROAR for a provisional class for next year?

    As a test before that happens, maybe we could submit them to the Toledo 1/8 Club for the upcoming Great Lakes Challenge race this August?

    Just a thought - if I'm stepping on anyone's toes, that isn't/wasn't the intent.

    Feel free to suggest changes that are needed - and if we come up with something we like, I can pass it on to Ted Hammer to consider for the GLC.

    Also, any thoughts on the engine list as posted here? Is this realistic now that it's 2012?




    GT1 Open Class Rules:
    Any buggy or rally game chassis permitted in open class


    • 1. Chassis: Any "1/8 Buggy/Truggy Based & Shaft-Driven or Belt Driven" chassis GT nitro cars. (Any manufacturer are OK too)
    • 2. Body: Any commercially available "GT" racecar style/type body; must look like a car that could actually be driven on the street with a passenger in real life or 1:1. The engine's cooling head fins can not be exposed from top or sides of body. Rear wing and/or spoiler/flap must be attached to the actual body. (No chassis mounted or "Buggy/Truggy" type wing mounts), holes on the front and rear windshield may be cut up to 4 x 4 inches, side driver window may be cut. Hole above the head may not exceed 1 inch.
    • 3. Tires: Only commercially available Rubber tires are OK. Tires must fit under car's body from over-head view. Adding "fender-flairs" on body to increase tire coverage is not allowed. (No "foam" tires or Cap tires are permitted)
    • 4. Fuel Capacity and Fuel Lines : All cars can only have 1 fuel tank with a maximum tank capacity of 150cc and the fuel line from the tank to the carburetor may not exceed 10 inches and from the pipe to the tank 10 inches. You may install an inline fuel filter, but the total length of fuel line including filter must not be greater than the 10" mentioned above.
    • 5. No "D-Box" or "Drift-Box" electronics systems permitted.
    • 6. All cars must have functional personal transponder at all times when on the track surface. (Sorry, no track rental units will be available during the event).
    • 7. Any engine and Brand is allowed from .21 to .28
    • 8. No "adjustable" or "slider" type clutch units allowed, Only 2, 3 & 4 shoe buggy based systems are OK.


    GT2 Spec Class Rules:
    All GT2 Spec class cars will follow the same rules #1 to #6 of the "GT1 Open" Class with the following exceptions:


    • 1. Chassis: GT2 Spec cars can only use commercially available production aluminum lower chassis plates. (No Carbon Fiber Lower Chassis plates in "GT2 Spec" are permitted.)
    • 2. Diffs: GT2 Spec cars must be equipped with standard gear diffs only. No "TCD" type, Spool or One Way diffs are permitted in GT2.
    • 3. Engine: GT2 Spec cars can use any of the "Spec-Approved" engines. All Spec engine internals must remain "100% un-modified factory stock".
    • 4. Engine Mods Not Permitted: All GT2 Spec car racers may elect to remove "Pull-Start" assemblies from "Spec-Approved" engines and replace rear engine "back-plates"; but the engine's crankshaft & all internals must remain "100% un-modified factory stock".
    • 5. Pipe: All GT Spec cars must use Kyosho #IG004 or Ofna # 31992. No other exhaust mufflers are permitted in GT2 Spec.
    • 6. GT2 Spec "Top 3" class winners' engines will receive full engine tech inspections at the end of the "A Main to insure legality & compliance with "Spec" class engine list and no internal mod rules.
    • 7. Fuel Capacity: All cars can only have 1 fuel tank with a maximum tank capacity of 150cc.
    • 8. No "adjustable" or "slider" type clutch units allowed, Only 2, 3 & 4 shoe buggy based systems are OK.
    • 9. No "D-Box" or "Drift-Box " electronics systems permitted.



    GT2 Spec Class Approved Engines:



    • Kyosho: GXR28SG
    • Kyosho: GXR28 (KYO74025)
    • Ofna: .28 Force (OFN52217)
    • Ofna: Hyper .28 (OFN 53220)
    • Axial: .28 Spec (AX001)
    • Axial: .28 Spec (AX002)
    • Novarrosi N21-3T
    • OS Engines .21VG (13644 or 13646 Roto-Start)


    The engines listed above on this "Spec List" offer a level playing field for the GT2 Spec Class racers.

    All GT Spec cars must use Kyosho #IG004 or Ofna # 31992. No other exhaust mufflers are permitted in GT2 Spec.

    Body for GT1 Open & GT2 Spec Class
    : Any commercially available "GT" racecar style/type body; must look like a car that could actually be driven on the street with a passenger in real life or 1:1. The engine's cooling head fins can not be exposed from top or sides of body. Rear wing and/or spoiler/flap must be attached to the actual body. (No chassis mounted or "Buggy/Truggy" type wing mounts), holes on the front and rear windshield may be cut up to 4 x 4 inches, side driver window may be cut. Hole above the head may not exceed 1 inch.



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  2. #2
    Chris K
    Guest

    Random rule thoughts from an area that doesn't even have an active outdoor on road...

    That is an interesting set of rules - and there are a couple of aspects which provide a performance 'limit' - therefore keeping the intent of (GT2) as a fun class for those of us who prefer to race vehicles that look 'realistic' and are somewhat 'limited' in performance due to varying degrees of 'driving disability'....

    With respect to engines, the HOA series has adopted the 'under $200.00 at Tower Hobbies or Horizon' matrix which allows a LOT of different engines - some of which 'could' offer superior performance.... BUT, I digress... As a person who likes good performing and well tuned engines, I have recently learned that many of the folks running the Axial AX1 & 2 engines are equipping them with Nova Rossi carbs - which improves tunability, economy AND performance but certainly creates an engine that costs much more than the $200.00 max (if you had to go buy a Nova Rossi carb from a retail source) and could hardly be considered as a 'stock' engine.

    With that said, I'm not sure anyone knows how one of these 'hybrids' performs using a 'stock' Kyosho exhaust or OFNA.... THAT could possibly be the wisest aspect of these rules and the 'limiting' aspect.... Not sure how well a Nova Rossi or Nova Rossi carb equipped engine will perform when coupled to one of these pipes - anyone tested them??? PLUS, I love the simplicity for tech - engine? check (without a lot of muss and fuss), exhaust? check!!!!

    Is there anything in either of these pipes that can be 'drilled' or altered to improve performance??? I know that the Kyosho can be 'taken apart' but was never motivated enough to see what was inside!

    With respect to what chassis are allowed in GT2, I understand the OFNA 'grandfather clause)(those have been applied to me on occasion too!) but is there a logical reason to allow other 'flat chassis'??? I realize that participation is a factor BUT this car was intentionally produced with a flat chassis to provide a performance advantage (I guess since it's a recent entry and NO rules of any group or type welcome other flat chassis in GT2 class...). We could even call it the 'Strike Rule' in honor of Losi's release of a car that didn't meet ROAR (or anyone's to my knowledge) rules. Sorta' looks to me like Team C might have had this in the back of their mind when they designed the car.... I don't want to get 'exclusionary' but the Team C deal certainly qualifies as a "things that make you go hmmmmm".

    BUT, my point is that WHEN is ROAR going to get off of their hands and DO SOMETHING about a class that is growing in size and has the potential to help shore up a declining on road program????

    Presumably someone has thought about a GT2e class??? Probably everything in the GT2 rules would work except the engine rule, which would become a MOTOR rule.... and I'd say mirroring what is working to grow the E Buggy class in off road would be a good place to start - 4s.... and that's pretty much it other than some size limitiations for motors and possibly no 2 speeds since the electric motors will WIND beyond the capability of nitro engines and this 'should' take care of straight speeds. This will allow those of us who are currently participating in E Buggy the opportunity to 'cross over' some of the expensive parts!

    These are more or less some of my random thoughts on this subject - obviously there is a bit of passion on my part because this is really a class that I enjoy running and I hate to see it ignored by sanctioning body. I would also like to see it be cost controlled in the GT2 and GT2e simply because THOSE are the classes that for the most part will be populated by newcomers who are testing the 'on road' waters without making the huge investment of 1/10th scale sedans or Nitro Can Am styled racers.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris K View Post
    That is an interesting set of rules - and there are a couple of aspects which provide a performance 'limit' - therefore keeping the intent of (GT2) as a fun class for those of us who prefer to race vehicles that look 'realistic' and are somewhat 'limited' in performance due to varying degrees of 'driving disability'.... ...........my point is that WHEN is ROAR going to get off of their hands and DO SOMETHING about a class that is growing in size and has the potential to help shore up a declining on road program???? .............. Presumably someone has thought about a GT2e class??? Probably everything in the GT2 rules would work except the engine rule, which would become a MOTOR rule............ and I'd say mirroring what is working to grow the E Buggy class in off road would be a good place to start - 4s.... and that's pretty much it other than some size limitiations for motors and possibly no 2 speeds since the electric motors will WIND beyond the capability of nitro engines and this 'should' take care of straight speeds. This will allow those of us who are currently participating in E Buggy the opportunity to 'cross over' some of the expensive parts!


    Chris, what specifically would you like to see me change or add to the above rules? If we put something together here that we like, I can send it off to Steve Pond at ROAR as a suggestion, but I think we should first make sure that it's what we want. Feel free to post a link to this thread in places where others will see it. What I can do, is update the original post with the changes that are being proposed...... so anyone coming here will be able to go to the end of the discussion and see the latest revision of our proposed rules.
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  4. #4

    Revised rules, April 23, 10:00am including changes proposed by Chris K:


    GT1 Nitro Open Class Rules:
    Any buggy or rally game chassis permitted in open class



    • 1. Chassis: Any "1/8 Buggy/Truggy Based & Shaft-Driven or Belt Driven" chassis GT nitro cars. (Any manufacturer are OK too)
    • 2. Body: Any commercially available "GT" racecar style/type body; must look like a car that could actually be driven on the street with a passenger in real life or 1:1. The engine's cooling head fins can not be exposed from top or sides of body. Rear wing and/or spoiler/flap must be attached to the actual body. (No chassis mounted or "Buggy/Truggy" type wing mounts), holes on the front and rear windshield may be cut up to 4 x 4 inches, side driver window may be cut. Hole above the head may not exceed 1 inch.
    • 3. Tires: Only commercially available Rubber tires are OK. Tires must fit under car's body from over-head view. Adding "fender-flairs" on body to increase tire coverage is not allowed. (No "foam" tires or Cap tires are permitted)
    • 4. Fuel Capacity and Fuel Lines : All cars can only have 1 fuel tank with a maximum tank capacity of 150cc and the fuel line from the tank to the carburetor may not exceed 10 inches and from the pipe to the tank 10 inches. You may install an inline fuel filter, but the total length of fuel line including filter must not be greater than the 10" mentioned above.
    • 5. No "D-Box" or "Drift-Box" electronics systems permitted.
    • 6. All cars must have functional personal transponder at all times when on the track surface. (Sorry, no track rental units will be available during the event).
    • 7. Any engine and Brand is allowed from .21 to .28
    • 8. No "adjustable" or "slider" type clutch units allowed, Only 2, 3 & 4 shoe buggy based systems are OK.



    GT2 Nitro Spec Class Rules:
    All GT2 Spec class cars will follow the same rules #1 to #6 of the "GT1 Open" Class with the following exceptions:


    • 1. Chassis: GT2 Spec cars can only use commercially available production aluminum lower chassis plates. (No Carbon Fiber Lower Chassis plates in "GT2 Spec" are permitted.)
    • 2. Diffs: GT2 Spec cars must be equipped with standard gear diffs only. No "TCD" type, Spool or One Way diffs are permitted in GT2.
    • 3. Engine: GT2 Spec cars can use any of the "Spec-Approved" engines. All Spec engine internals must remain "100% un-modified factory stock".
    • 4. Engine Mods Not Permitted: All GT2 Spec car racers may elect to remove "Pull-Start" assemblies from "Spec-Approved" engines and replace rear engine "back-plates"; but the engine's crankshaft & all internals must remain "100% un-modified factory stock".
    • 5. Pipe: All GT Spec cars must use Kyosho #IG004 or Ofna # 31992. No other exhaust mufflers are permitted in GT2 Spec.
    • 6. GT2 Spec "Top 3" class winners' engines will receive full engine tech inspections at the end of the "A Main to insure legality & compliance with "Spec" class engine list and no internal mod rules.
    • 7. Fuel Capacity: All cars can only have 1 fuel tank with a maximum tank capacity of 150cc.
    • 8. No "adjustable" or "slider" type clutch units allowed, Only 2, 3 & 4 shoe buggy based systems are OK.
    • 9. No "D-Box" or "Drift-Box " electronics systems permitted.





    GT2e Spec Class Rules:
    All GT2e Spec class cars will follow the same rules #1 to #6 of the "GT1 Open" Class with the following exceptions:



    • 1. Chassis: GT2e Spec cars can only use commercially available production aluminum lower chassis plates. (No Carbon Fiber Lower Chassis plates in "GT2e Spec" are permitted.)
    • 2. Diffs: GT2e Spec cars must be equipped with standard gear diffs only. No "TCD" type, Spool or One Way diffs are permitted in GT2e.
    • 3. Motor: GT2 Spec cars can use any of the "Spec-Approved" engines. All Spec engine internals must remain "100% un-modified factory stock".
    • Battery rules ?????
    • Engine rules ?????
    • Motors and batteries - can we simply make these the same as ROAR rules already provide for electric racing?
    • Speed controls ?????
    • 9. No "D-Box" or "Drift-Box " electronics systems permitted.



    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    GT2 Nitro Spec Class Approved Engines:



    • Any nitro engine with an average common retail mail order selling price under $200, as well as the following:
    • Kyosho: GXR28SG
    • Kyosho: GXR28 (KYO74025)
    • Ofna: .28 Force (OFN52217)
    • Ofna: Hyper .28 (OFN 53220)
    • Axial: .28 Spec (AX001)
    • Axial: .28 Spec (AX002)
    • Novarrosi N21-3T
    • OS Engines .21VG (13644 or 13646 Roto-Start)




    • Exhaust: All GT Spec cars must use un-modified Kyosho #IG004 or Ofna # 31992. No other exhaust mufflers are permitted in GT2 Spec.



    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Body for GT1 Nitro Open, GT2 Nitro Spec Class, and GT2e Spec Class
    : Any commercially available "GT" racecar style/type body; must look like a car that could actually be driven on the street with a passenger in real life or 1:1. For nitro cars, the engine's cooling head fins can not be exposed from top or sides of body. Rear wing and/or spoiler/flap must be attached to the actual body. (No chassis mounted or "Buggy/Truggy" type wing mounts), holes on the front and rear windshield may be cut up to 4 x 4 inches, side driver window may be cut. Hole above the head may not exceed 1 inch.
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  5. #5
    azeroth
    Guest
    gt2 e i can see using roar current battery rules i see no set spec on esc or motors for e buggy; being i own a gtp2-e with a rx8 and a 2650 and run 4s lipo this thing is brutal fast in low traction it is almost uncontrolable if geared tall and maybe the only limit is the track and driver skill so i dont see really need anything other than track itself but could be added if the class grows large enough to warrant as to run timesi have no clue on how long it will go befor shutdown. but it is quicker than my nitro gtp

  6. #6
    So it would be safe for me to just add a note that the same rules apply for battery/motor/ESC as in other ROAR electric classes?

    Suggestion - pretend that I don't even know how to spell the word GT, and tell me specifically what you'd like listed here in the rules.

    This reminds me once again of one of my favorite sayings - "everything is easy to do when you're not the one who has to do it." Writing rules is a real pain....
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  7. #7
    Chris K
    Guest
    LOL!!! YES IT IS!!!!!!!

    And I'm not a great writer of them 'cause it forces me to seek loopholes and I'm not inclined to think that way....

    BUT, as to the GT8e, a mirror of all of the GT8 rules with respect to chassis, body and electronics would do the trick. My thinking is a lot like azeroth, it's way easy to 'overbuild' these things to the point that they're uncontrolable and therefore NOT fun to drive! Speed controls can be cranked all a person could want but most likely that will only bring up temperatures and kill electronics - which at any level are expensive but some people just have to 'learn by doing'.....

    Probably best to rule out 2 speed gearboxes - there is no production electric car in 1/8th scale to the best of my knowledge that is equipped with one and they can be a pain in the butt to fit due to creating non standard drive shaft lengths and other problems with gear ratios and such.... PLUS, an electric has the advantage of a 'virtually' unlimited RPM range which a nitro does not.

    Possibly something regarding cutting up bodies - which if left unregulated could result in cars that no longer look like cars.......

    That's all I can think of at the moment.

    I might add that there is a comittee being formed on the IGT thread of RC Tech - it will be interesting to see how/where this goes since every experience I ever had with comittees not being able to meet face to face in 'real time' didn't have much success.... but who knows, this could be a first!

    Sooooo, hopeuflly others will chime in with their thoughts and we can 'eyeball' what is going on over there and hopefully have something as a group to present to ROAR....

    .

    But honestly, the rules for this class can be much more simple sin

  8. #8
    Chris, the end of your response got cut off somehow?

    Please do post the URL to the web discussion on RC Tech, as I've got no idea where it is - and for that matter, feel free to post a link there to this discussion as well.



    I'd like to make a suggestion. The 1/8 GT Class is already running at the Midwest Series races, and will be held at the Great Lakes Challenge in Toledo this coming August. Ted Hammer suggested I look at those rules, which I've copied and am posting below. Anything in <red> is something I changed or added.....

    ================================================== ===============
    MIDWEST SERIES RULES

    ROAR does not currently have rules specific to the 1/8 GT class. In an effort to minimize costs and maintain competition between racers, the Midwest Series follows the rules listed below:

    1/8 GT and GTE Class
    Chassis
    : Any 1/8 scale buggy based shaft driven nitro or electric powered car. (Any off-road conversion is OK). If there are not enough cars for electric and nitro cars to race separately, they will race together.

    Body
    : Any commercially available GT style body.

    1. Wings and spoilers can be used if they are the original with the body and cut on the factory lines. Rear of the bodies should maintain tail lamps and can not be completely cut out.

    Tires : Any commercially available rubber (No foam based tires allowed) GT style tires are OK.

    1. Any insert is OK.
    2. All tires must fit under the body. (No addition of wheel flares)
    3. No electronics may be added to aid in vehicle stability.
    4. Wide rear tires will be allowed.

    Engine : Any .28 or smaller displacement “spec” style engine.

    1. All factory installed internal parts with NO modifications.
    2. Must be commercially available.
    3. Regular price suggested to be under $200 not including tax. (Use Tower Hobbies, Stormer Hobbies, Horizon Hobbies or any other large retail store as price reference.)
    4. For electric cars, ROAR rules apply for motors, batteries, and speed controls.

    Pipes : Any tuned pipe is OK.
    ================================================== ===============



    The above rules are simple, easy to follow, and open enough that most people with these cars should be able to race them without having to make expensive modifications. Might this be all we need?
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  9. #9
    Latest "GT World Championships" rules can be found here:
    http://gtworldchampionships.com/GT1ClassRules.aspx


    Went to RC Tech, and found the discussions:
    http://www.rctech.net/forum/nitro-ro...mar-rules.html

    http://www.rctech.net/forum/nitro-ro...p-sharing.html
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  10. #10

    Revised rules to include suggestions from Jeff Vargas

    Is this better?

    ================================================== ===============
    PROPOSED MIDWEST SERIES 1/8 GT and GTE CLASS RULES

    1/8 GT and GTE Class

    1. Chassis : Any 1/8 scale buggy based shaft driven nitro or electric powered car. (Any off-road conversion is OK).
    2. Diffs - standard gear diffs only, no one-way, spool, or TCD type diffs.
    3. Weight: minimum dry weight with body, 3500 grams



    Body
    : Any commercially available GT style body.


    1. Wings and spoilers can be used if they are the original with the body and cut on the factory lines. Rear of the bodies should maintain tail lamps and can not be completely cut out.


    Tires : Any commercially available rubber (No foam based tires allowed) GT style tires are OK


    1. Any insert is OK.
    2. All tires must fit under the body. (No addition of wheel flares)
    3. No electronics may be added to aid in vehicle stability.
    4. Wide rear tires will be allowed.


    Engine : Any .28 or smaller displacement “spec” style engine.


    1. All factory installed internal parts with NO modifications.
    2. Must be commercially available.
    3. Regular price suggested to be under $200 not including tax. (Use Tower Hobbies, Stormer Hobbies, Horizon Hobbies or any other large retail store as price reference.)
    4. Fuel capacity: 150cc.
    5. Non-adjustable 2, 3, or 4-shoe clutches only.
    6. GTE Electric Class: For electric cars, ROAR rules apply for motors and speed controls.
    7. GTE Electric Class: Any type of commercially available hard-case battery units are permitted. Batteries must be removed from chassis to be charged or peaked in a "charging bag" for racer/track safety reasons.


    Pipes : Any tuned pipe is OK.

    If there are not enough cars for electric and nitro cars to race separately, they will race together.
    ================================================== ===============
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