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Thread: Proposed 1/8 GT Class Rules

  1. #11
    azeroth
    Guest
    i see no problems with these rules as long as someone doesn't demand kick up built into the stock chassis plate as this elliminates the gtp gtp2 gtp2 e and dm1 chassis from the class even thou the they are buggy based shaft drive chassis. and from where i have been reading else where these are not allowed to run at the Byron on-road fuel challenge because they are flat chassis cars which i am trying to get clarified.. but it would be dissapointing not to be able to run at a major event less than a hour from the house with a chassis that has been around as long as it has and this is my opinion only ..... maybe i'll start machining parts to fit a small motor a can am body and foams

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by azeroth View Post
    i see no problems with these rules as long as someone doesn't demand kick up built into the stock chassis plate as this elliminates the gtp gtp2 gtp2 e and dm1 chassis from the class even thou the they are buggy based shaft drive chassis. and from where i have been reading else where these are not allowed to run at the Byron on-road fuel challenge because they are flat chassis cars......
    I'm confused - in the latest version of the rules posted above, there is nothing written about the chassis having or not having "kick up". For that matter, there is no reason people can't change the chassis if they want to.


    Also, the rules up above are intended to be a general set of rules. If Byrons wants special rules for their event, or for that matter any other club, that's fine. If some club wants to specify all green bodies, or only one brand of tire, or one brand of fuel.... why not. These rules should be a starting point, and while they'd need to be followed at ROAR National events, clubs and tracks have always been able to modify rules as they wish.
    Have Camera, Will Travel

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  3. #13
    azeroth
    Guest
    I received a answer and will be allowed to run at the Byron's event. yes i Understand Rules as a guidelines and each club can modify as ness to meet their individual area or needs like specing a tire or a fuel or motor bat combo for electric. The rules that you have posted here and what MWS have posted are good but man i Just don't understand what all the the huff is about. I have seen perfectly good classes with high turnout in my 1:1 racing destroyed and have had those classes and racers go away from rule changes and Mike thank you very much for your time and involvement.

  4. #14
    I read the threads on RC Tech, and I know what you mean. That's what happens when "business" and "finances" and "advertising" become more important than the racers and racing. Why anyone would want to put up with that nonsense is beyond me. It's all infighting and bickering, and apparently has been going on for many years. Nobody will ever "win", regardless of what they say. From what I have read, there is no way that these rules will ever become impartial and equally fair to everyone unless/until they are set up by ROAR.


    Most tracks run races under ROAR rules, using ROAR insurance. For many of us, those are the more important "rules", as ROAR is part of IFMAR. Many times in the past, and most likely many times in the future, some group will come along and try to run races, or race series, or whatever, using their own rules. That's exactly what I see when I read the discussions on RC Tech. Or, racers can simply follow the simple MWS rules, which don't include those things that apparently are creating so much controversy.



    Others do this as well - click here for the RC Pro rules for their series:
    http://cdn.btree.us/media/view/file/...lsZV9pZD0xNzcy
    Have Camera, Will Travel

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  5. #15
    I received a fascinating letter from someone who knows far more about this than I do, but it seems to sum up perfectly what I see when I read those threads. Unless I get permission to do so, I can't simply post it here (but I wish the person who sent it to me would do so). What I can do is post a short excerpt from the message, that more or less explains what is going on. I condensed it into 4 short sentences.

    Rules have been in place since 2010 based on the Midwest Series rules and RC Pro rules from 2007/2008. The argument has not been about rules but control, power, and profit. It has been a war between management of three manufacturers on control of the GT class. This has been ongoing for 3+ years and probably will not change.

    Personally, I don't want to even begin to think about who I'm siding "with" or "against". I like the MWS rules which define a single class for GT racing, as it simplifies everything. It doesn't preclude anyone from running two or more classes if they wish to - it just defines one single class that would apply to everyone in the country. A set of uniform rules is a step in the right direction.

    (Maybe I'll ask on RC Tech for someone to tell me what the real issues are - in one short paragraph, explain each issue, and specifically what one manufacturer/group says that another manufacturer/group disagrees with. Once we know that, we can find a way to word it such that it satisfies everyone. Or, if the whole fight is really over "WHO" controls things, rather than what those things are, we can suggest that NOBODY controls anything. Since it's all just preliminary stuff until ROAR gets involved, see if we can post a common set of rules that everyone can live with for a while.)
    Have Camera, Will Travel

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  6. #16
    azeroth
    Guest
    I agree what are the true issues? I thought it was supposed to be a starter on-road nitro class i mean really it is probably is the least expensive to get into if converting a used buggy to on road with and a whole lot easier on parts than my 1/10 to maintain wise. all the discussions going on with it is mostly politics so i will just show up at races and if they let me run great or if they stick me in open 1/8 it don't matter because i am racing its not like i haven't gone to a track and done nothing but corner marshall all day it is a day away from work, the house, and for some the wife or a day out with or with out the kids and that is the point of it isn't it?

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by azeroth View Post
    ......all the discussions going on with it is mostly politics so i will just show up at races and if they let me run great or if they stick me in open 1/8 it don't matter because i am racing ......
    I haven't been involved long enough (and don't intend to!!!) to get involved in the politics, but from what I've seen, you captured the whole "issue". It's all politics, which is in turn driven by $$$$$$. Nothing new here.

    The thing is, nobody needs the politics, or the politicians. Racing should be for and by the racers. If a company makes a good product, people will buy it.

    I decided to stay out of everyone's way on RC Tech, and just enter a new thread with which to find out what the "issues" are - the reasons for setting up the rules. You can find it here:
    http://www.rctech.net/forum/nitro-ro...es-basics.html
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  8. #18
    azeroth
    Guest
    thanks mike i will get some dimensions from my gtp and look for a few more and see if we can fill in the blanks alittle over there

  9. #19
    Great - here's what we're up to...

    (rules with " __________" need suggested values)

    =================================================
    PROPOSED ROAR RULES FOR THE 1/8 GT CLASS
    chassis: shaft driven, no belts
    diffs: standard gear diffs only
    body: any commercially available GT style body (not Lola style bodies)
    body: rear of body can not be completely cut out
    body: rear windows can be completely cut out
    body: side front windows can be completely cut out.
    body: The engine’s cooling head fins can not be exposed from top or sides of body.
    body: front windshield cutout - 70mm maximum
    wings: wings and spoilers: allowed
    tires: any commercially available rubber tires (no foam tires)
    tires: must fit completely under the car body (no add-on wheel flares)
    tire inserts: any insert is OK
    tires: no width limitation
    engine: any .28 or smaller style engine, any carb
    engine: must be commercially available
    clutch: Offroad style non-adjustable 2, 3, or 4 shoe clutch (no axial clutches)
    pipe: any pipe
    Fuel Capacity: 150cc maximum
    intake: INS box required
    Electronics: No electronic stability control allowed
    Electronics: No electronic aids (D-Box, etc.)
    weight: minimum weight 3500 grams

    Car length, maximum: __________
    Car width, maximum: __________
    Car height, maximum (suspension fully compressed) __________
    Wheelbase: maximum __________
    Wheelbase: minimum __________
    ELECTRIC - speed control - use existing ROAR rules
    ELECTRIC - battery - use existing ROAR rules
    Fuel nitro content: open




    =================================================
    OPTIONAL CLASS RULES FOR THE 1/8 GT CLASS (select as desired)
    chassis: 1/7 scale - allowed
    chassis: allows kickup or flat,
    chassis: only 'kickup' or only 'flat'
    wings: built for the body, and attached to body,
    wings: no buggy style wings.
    engine: must be available from mail order shops for under (SET PRICE HERE) w/o tax __________
    engine: limited to a specified number of ports (3, 7, whatever...) __________
    engine: Limit intake to 7.0 or 7.5mm __________
    engine: allow axial (Centax style) clutches
    engine: only stock carb allowed
    engine: exhaust stinger maximum diameter: __________
    Traction: Liquid traction additives or rubber enhancment chemicals NOT permitted.
    the track/club/series can specify a specific brand of fuel, car, tires, engine, etc.
    Tires: width limitation __________
    Fuel limitations on nitro content? __________


    The first group are rules that everyone seems to agree on.
    The second group can be selected based on whatever some club, series, or group wants to use.

    The first group should be "universal" GT rules.
    Nobody should argue here about the second group - that's between racers and their local club or track.

    I need to add 'stinger size' to the list on RC Tech.
    Have Camera, Will Travel

    Smugmug Photo Gallery: www.m.smugmug.com


  10. #20
    Suggestion for the group calling itself a "board" to create rules - what they're doing is fine, but they should come up with rule package for their own new class, not all of 1/8 GT.

    Creating their own rules can't possibly upset anyone - it should put an end to the bickering and infighting.
    Trying to create a set of universal rules for all of 1/8 GT racing will have the opposite effect, and just pour more fuel on the fire.''

    There are many groups involved in the 1/8 GT.
    If each of the groups make up their own rules, there is no problem.
    If any of the groups try to tell the others what to do, there will be nothing but fighting.

    Even with ROAR and RC Pro series, neither is trying to say their rules apply to the other.
    If you want to run in any race, you play by whatever rules are in place.

    ......anyway, that's just my advice or opinion... that's as close as I will let myself get involved in the discussion. I think it's an easy fix, and will stop the fighting once and for all.... or move the fighting on to some other fun thing to make war over.... gee, all this over plastic trophies for toy car racing! :-)
    Have Camera, Will Travel

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